One of the most important things I learned in John Rose's surveying class is the definition of a monument.
"Set at or near a property corner".
Now this is also one of my favorites and maybe the most important.
"A boundary is defined on paper".
I love this stuff. I love recorded plats because that's what they are. Recorded, a legal document that has permanently defined a property boundary.
Who can define a boundary in Arizona? If you said a surveyor then you are wrong!!!!! Only a court of law can do this.
Yes there are platting exceptions but all municipalities have a legal department.
All that said brings me to my point.
I have been running across a lot of cad files lately in which the surveyor has gone out in a platted subdivision, recovered the monuments, drew a line between them and called this the boundary and given it to the architect and civil for design.
I understand this method, however in the case of a platted subdivision I fully disagree with it, unless there is a serious blunder, which we all have found at one time or another.
I am of the opinion that a monument does not define a boundary, but simply represents a controlling location that is subjective depending on who surveys it.
Going back to the find and trace method. In the case of a platted subdivision, once again in my opinion is fundamentally incorrect based on the fact that 5 guys can go out, shoot the same monuments and come up with a different boundary. Before you know you have people arguing that the perfectly good plat is somehow messed up because the monuments measure different.
Whatever!
Why go to all that trouble when there is a perfectly good legal boundary? How about simply hopping on a meridian and use some good old surveyor common sense and use best fit and make sure that no one loses?
Call out a falling on a monument you don't like it.
Now there are some that will argue this point and say monuments are the end all of the universe and that's fine, however in my mind it's mute.
Why do surveyors want to take all kinds of liability when all they have to to do is provide evidence? That's what I am. I am a professional evidence producer. Do I want to re-create the world of a platted lot? Oh hell no!!!
I am speaking from the perspective that the cad files I recently received were in a platted subdivision, there were only topo's done and no results of survey filed and in a couple of recent instances I have had to re-do the boundary for some legals I had to write based on the fact that the particular city that everything was going to would have kicked it out, hence causing some changes to the design.
So you're out doing a topo, you've gotten your meridian and you miss a rebar and cap. So What!! It's just a representation of what some other guy did and who knows what the crew chief did.
Now getting into boundary surveys is another thing and I use many methods for those. Record and measured and falling's being my first choice in a platted subdivision. That's why we file results of surveys because it is the result of the evidence we produced and yes I know that there are applications for different types of surveys but today is about the plat map.
I have done it all different ways but I always fall back on the fundamentals learned from John Rose and many old timey guys, especially in a platted subdivision.
" A MONUMENT IS SET AT OR NEAR A PROPERTY CORNER"
"A PROPERTY CORNER IS DEFINED ON PAPER"
Brilliant, just amazingly brilliant!!! Got to love the old guy common sense.
I think Boundary Control and Legal Principals I & II should be a mandatory requirement for anyone that is allowed to even trace a boundary line.
Employers call Phoenix College and immediately enroll your people. I used to send selected people through myself included and it was some of the best money I ever spent.
Peace out surveyors, make a great common sense filled week.
"Set at or near a property corner".
Now this is also one of my favorites and maybe the most important.
"A boundary is defined on paper".
I love this stuff. I love recorded plats because that's what they are. Recorded, a legal document that has permanently defined a property boundary.
Who can define a boundary in Arizona? If you said a surveyor then you are wrong!!!!! Only a court of law can do this.
Yes there are platting exceptions but all municipalities have a legal department.
All that said brings me to my point.
I have been running across a lot of cad files lately in which the surveyor has gone out in a platted subdivision, recovered the monuments, drew a line between them and called this the boundary and given it to the architect and civil for design.
I understand this method, however in the case of a platted subdivision I fully disagree with it, unless there is a serious blunder, which we all have found at one time or another.
I am of the opinion that a monument does not define a boundary, but simply represents a controlling location that is subjective depending on who surveys it.
Going back to the find and trace method. In the case of a platted subdivision, once again in my opinion is fundamentally incorrect based on the fact that 5 guys can go out, shoot the same monuments and come up with a different boundary. Before you know you have people arguing that the perfectly good plat is somehow messed up because the monuments measure different.
Whatever!
Why go to all that trouble when there is a perfectly good legal boundary? How about simply hopping on a meridian and use some good old surveyor common sense and use best fit and make sure that no one loses?
Call out a falling on a monument you don't like it.
Now there are some that will argue this point and say monuments are the end all of the universe and that's fine, however in my mind it's mute.
Why do surveyors want to take all kinds of liability when all they have to to do is provide evidence? That's what I am. I am a professional evidence producer. Do I want to re-create the world of a platted lot? Oh hell no!!!
I am speaking from the perspective that the cad files I recently received were in a platted subdivision, there were only topo's done and no results of survey filed and in a couple of recent instances I have had to re-do the boundary for some legals I had to write based on the fact that the particular city that everything was going to would have kicked it out, hence causing some changes to the design.
So you're out doing a topo, you've gotten your meridian and you miss a rebar and cap. So What!! It's just a representation of what some other guy did and who knows what the crew chief did.
Now getting into boundary surveys is another thing and I use many methods for those. Record and measured and falling's being my first choice in a platted subdivision. That's why we file results of surveys because it is the result of the evidence we produced and yes I know that there are applications for different types of surveys but today is about the plat map.
I have done it all different ways but I always fall back on the fundamentals learned from John Rose and many old timey guys, especially in a platted subdivision.
" A MONUMENT IS SET AT OR NEAR A PROPERTY CORNER"
"A PROPERTY CORNER IS DEFINED ON PAPER"
Brilliant, just amazingly brilliant!!! Got to love the old guy common sense.
I think Boundary Control and Legal Principals I & II should be a mandatory requirement for anyone that is allowed to even trace a boundary line.
Employers call Phoenix College and immediately enroll your people. I used to send selected people through myself included and it was some of the best money I ever spent.
Peace out surveyors, make a great common sense filled week.
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